This thread is based on this article of the same name:
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/51661

What the article showed us is that; psychopath is not evil at all. The evil deed caused by psychopath is actually caused by the intense internal sadness which exploded after a decades of accumulation, which exist in the first place because of lack of love and experiencing social-isolation, that existed because of their inability to express a normal social-behaviour which made normal people loveable.

IMO normal people are loveable when they're able to reached-out to people. But psychopath aren't able to reach-out to people, because their tiny bits of action seems to be anti-social, hence this exacerbate their isolation, which increase their sadness, which will explode in a violent outburst.
_

I think I can be empathetic to psychopath.

1. I think psychopath perform risky-driving because they're very optimistic, they're optimistic because they're less nervous and full of anticipation, and they're less nervous because it require a larger amount of stimulation to make them nervous to an otherwise extremely scary situation to normal people (cortical under-aroused?). In other hand; joy of anticipation happen to everyone, but the balance between nervousness and the excitement of anticipation is what determine overall emotion. This overall emotion (pessimism or optimism) determine decision.

2. Also... I think they didn't perform social behaviour like normal people do, because they're not socially motivated (small amygdala?). Perhaps psychopath didn't feel rewarded and fulfilled by social action/behaviour, they felt nothing fun about it. Since they didn't feel rewarded by (even the hint of) doing it, maybe they didn't even spend their life thinking about social problem either, perhaps they spend their life thinking about other material things, which make them appear intelligent. In contrast; normal people probably had solved a trivial-social-problem at age 10, but a psychopath may resort to copying a charming social-gesture from TV in adulthood.

Hence...
- it is easy to justify a reckless driving if you didn't fear (or failed to percieve fear); your fear of a threat may have been swamped by the anticipation of excitement, hence thru rational thinking; it OK to be reckless.
- it is also easy to be socially-disassociate if you 'forgot' to be nice to people. You forgot to be nice because social-gesture has NO precedence than other *stuff* occuring inside your mind.
_

I think seeking cure to psychopathy is good idea..

Any drug (e.g. Pondimin) that increase brain arousal is desireable. Desiring for a cure is supposed to be like normal people desiring love. Desiring love is actually a paradox; love is a painful process but also a rewarding one too! (refer to movie "Hitch"), so why prefer/not-prefer love/cure? Love as The Paineful Truth once explained, (I quote) "is not an emotion, it is a reasoned committment which guides, and is supported and driven by, the emotions." [sic], meanings; by following your emotion and experiencing the joy of love, you've inadvertently gave yourself a responsibility.

If a psychopath desire a responsibility/joy as it was with love, which is; a cure to psychopathy, which can also be worded as; "a sincere committment to a social-life, plus a bountiful (mental) reward", then he must have an arousable-cortical and a functional-amygdala. To achieve such functionality, one need to take the drug.

So a psychopath must choose either to take the drug or not.

Philosophically, the choice is either the blue-pill; experiencing the emptiness, but responsible-less life, or the red-pill; experiencing the joy, but with social responsibility (adventure!), (refer to movie "Matrix"). I speculate that, everyone will instinctively choose the red-pill, because.. one has to remember; taking the blue-pill is what made schizophrenic suffer and committed suicide. They justified their suicide with a complain of a severe "emptiness of emotion", just right after adolescent (the onset of schizophrenia). IMO this lack of emotion is much more severe than what the psychopath is experiencing because schizophrenic is the problem with the entire brain, while psychopath is just a mere problem with a small part of the brain called amygdala.

"Love is a reasoned committment": http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/religion-f4/500-days-of-summer-theological-thread-t754.htm#7979
_

thankyou for reading.
~xponen

good lesson in long-distance learning.

how does one then integrate one's compassion with society's demand for displayed normalcy in, let's say, intenert forum discussions?

or in any possible interaction?
before it gets to an all-out psycho-logical warfare about rights and dominance.

has this not been
the promise to
a world
hoping
trusting
waiting

I'm soo sorry for your plight mayflow, you really have no idea how sincere I was in believing that; the action of banning you and lavender was something wrong.
_

But,
can you please not intentionally digress my post this quickly? Isn't that you're doing something wrong for the sake of emotion; anger, which is wrong again? Why not do something wrong for the sake of love? like loving the country or loving thy family?

Can you not love every text written in DPF? why should you swamped them all with digression?
_

Explain to me how your 'whining' could change the mind of the moderators?

Do you think that the mens were the 'moderator', and you're somewhat the leader of womens' suffrage movement (in London), and you wanted to burn the city of London to show off your anger?

The burning of the city didn't give women their right to vote, it was later.. when women volunteer for war-factory work that the London 'moderator' consider women to have such rights.
_

So... don't burn the city! please?

digressing exponen's post:
just one more question, to clear my mind:
please tell me that this is not another attempt to repeat the milgram experiment.

X I know for a fact that you altered and censored one of my posts. For gosh sakes, you pm'd me that you did. I also know for a fact that I was once banned, and that Lavender has been repeatedly banned. Now you can post your "I don;t know anythings" all you want, but you still messed with one of my posts and altered what I said, and that just ain't right. I accuse you and many other mods here of abusing your powers. What is your defense?

many other mods?
here?

remote viewing might become fashionable soon.
counteracted by denials.

^impressive learning.
impressive stockpiling of knowledge.
impressive persistence...

gone how far with the conclusions of actually undisclosed experiences?
i.e. if you don't ban me for asking such outrageous questions..

i mean a communication sophisticated and benevolent enough but uncompromising against profanity and one-ups, the games people play...

or have you shown any real interest for direct connections, rather than pontificating an invincible i upon a judged them?

here we go.
i have been painstakingly avoiding indirect accusations and/or insinuations while trying to ask accurate, but "non-personal" questions, the whole nine yards of psychology avoiding the hidden ....

Hello robbers, here's my elongated post to reply to your charitable post. I wanted to reply sooner, but I find it difficult to think clearly in the days before today. Today I wrote an XXL post to you, haha...
_

robbers wrote:

Maybe it's a remark on sympathetic reading? For example, who understands alligators? Is it the alligator, or the boffins who read books about them?

I think the non-psychopath had more part functioning inside their brain than the psychopath themselve. Therefore the non-psychopath can better describe psychopath than the psychopath themselves. In other word; boffins can better describe alligator, provided that the boffin is the sum of all part of alligator.

For example; do you know how a fly see? I know for sure, because... I've seen Discovery Channel and they've showed me how a fly can be tricked to believe that it was flying thru a virtual maze, whilst the fact is; the fly was just seeing a sets of moving dots projected into a panoramic screen infront of the fly. Hence/therefore the fly sees in dots! (and the fly enjoy it, that's why it came for MORE virtual reality after being released) Source: "Weird Connection".

robbers wrote:

Sympathetic reading is a powerful tool for textual analysis. Sympathetic reading is the opposite of critical reading. A sympathetic reader approaches a text, or a subject, and tries to believe and understands everything written. She assumes the text is right and meaningful. If something doesn't make sense, she finds a way of looking at it so that it makes sense.

If I read a text, I can theorize what the author may-have or may-have-not said IF I can emphatize with what he or she knows. Without empathy, you can missunderstood a text in a million ways, especially if it was poorly written, such as if it was laden with incoherency and disconnection.

Therefore it is either; important to know who the author was (e.g. was he scientific? mystic? lunatic?), or to ask the author to learn the art of writting. Most physic textbook is difficult to be understood because, the reader require to much theorizing to do to actually understood what the author means. As a result, most student rely on lecturer notes or waiting the lecturer to elucidate the book before actually reading them.

A rule of thumb; Sympathetic reading is usefull if your author is human. It is easier to understand a todler or an adult human than to understand a superior alien being.

Empathy is the key!

robbers wrote:

"superficial charm" Sheep are often rude. They think they deserve to be treated like rubbish.

In real world context, their rudeness may be due to fear of vanity. Everyone has the potential of doing good, but they fear to be ridiculed by doing good, so they don't do good. But this "do no good" is infectious, it made everyone thought goodness is non-sense.

robbers wrote:

"high intelligence" Does it really take that much to outsmart sheep?

No. Sheep fears alot of things, this made them relatively average. For example; if he fear the complexity of Physics, he won't enrol in physic course.

robbers wrote:

"poor judgment and failure to learn from experience" Sheep are scared of everything. Psychopaths have an individual scheme of values, as well as persistence.

Sheep have individual scheme of values and persistence + fear. This is an advantage. For example; a good general of war had to know when to back off or to retreat. You won't retreat if you have no fear, and you won't settle for less if you just aim for optimum reward (which lead to thinking "Win more or both loose", sometimes it is better to let your enemy 'win' and you loose). So... you won't win a war if you have no fear.

robbers wrote:

"pathological egocentricity, grandiose sense of self-worth" Thinking you're someone special is not possible with the sheep... for obvious reasons.

It is possible with sheep, but then they grow up and realize that... the person across the street may know more than they do. So, lets say that I (xponen) brag about myself in front of public, then... lets assume that I'm also that other person across the street (*projecting*), I may look upon myself with despise ("gosh, how idiot he was!", "honey, I meet an idiot person across the street this morning, his name was X, BUT please do treat him with modesty, maybe we'll became idiot too! We don't want people to treat us harshly, don't we?").

It is empathy that eliminate grandiose sense of self-worth.

robbers wrote:

"incapacity for love" As though the sheep really understand what love means!

Both non-psychopath and psychopath don't know what love is. But psychopath has additional handicap, they also do not empathize, so... there's high probability that a psychopath will hurt the feeling of his love one.

However, as with all sheep, non-psychopath are susceptible to popular ideology (pop-ideology) due to their social behaviour, one of those ideology is to have relationship just for fun! which made sheep hurt the feelings of their love one as much as psychopath do.

robbers wrote:

"lack of remorse or shame" Ashamed of what? Breaking sheep-values? Going against a corrupt system?

If psychopath rule the system, they would corrupt too. Their corruption would be unstoppable (if it happens), because they don't bow to punishment.

Non-psychopath's value could also be benevolent as anyone wishes it to be, but non-psychopath(sheep) can also succumb to temptation and fear, hence... such emotion offer disadvantage. If psychopath don't bow to temptation and fear, then perhaps they can be a hero.

Psychopath can be hero: http://books.google.com/books?id=LSiBsdxcGigC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=psychopath+football&source=bl&ots=nlWZzj7e-U&sig=x2ESs531AyKW6yYhdRsPQqw1VRY&hl=en&ei=bQm4SvWMGKXu6gPulIzkCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7#v=onepage&q=psychopath%20football&f=false

robbers wrote:

"impulsivity, poor self-control" Sheep need to be told what to do and when to do it, follow a schedule. They never 'just' do something.

True, it was proven in Milgram experiment, the incident in No Gun Ri and the incident in My lai where civilians were killed in mass number by US troop (in korean war I guess, I hope I spelled the place correctly) is due to people following order and not willing to deviate from those order to respect personal value of not killing civilian.

*The order came from US embassy after a discussion in the embassy, and was passed down to general and to officers and ect.. down the rank, until down to the soldiers. Obviously... an officer on the battlefield should be given abit responsibility to oppose or to revise the order that was given thru him, which was originally meant for the soldiers.

robbers wrote:

"pathological lying" As though there were a difference between truth and lies...!

"Pathological" means; disease-like. "Pathological lying" means; deceiving people tooooo often as though it was a disease.

Addicted to pornography is a disease too. But people can accept this fact if they have such disease, but why can't psychopath accept the fact that they have a lying disease too?

robbers wrote:

"manipulative behavior" Sheep both love and hate to be controlled.

erm... I don't know. I think non-psychopath don't like being manipulated for evil purpose. But they do like working as part of an effort torward an ideal future, but they do hate it when it turn out to be evil. However, everyone are effected by the "endowment effect", which means; they wanted to evaluate what they already have, better than what other people have. (in other word; Subconscious pride).

i.e; A Nazi officer may try to find the goodness of the Nazi system because of "endowment effect", such that he find goodness piled up in front of him, but the badness was missed.

Some people may appear as though they were a slave to some system that's obviously evil, but we don't know how complex the psychological arena that's playing inside someone else's head. It could happen to us too, so we should be modest with our criticism.

"Endowment effect": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect

robbers wrote:

"promiscuous sexual behavior" Jealous?

Yes, and fearful. "We feared that the future will be filled with psychopath that doesn't respect our value, and caused chaos to our children's wellbeings", that's the paraphrased thought of fearfulness.

robbers wrote:

"juvenile delinquency" The sheep sat quietly in the youth propaganda centers schools.

To most people, school is fun. It is fun because it is like a "Mecca" to friendship and games.

robbers wrote:

"criminal versatility" Creative, open to trying new ways of doing things. (How many times was Gandhi arrested?)

Gandhi do not resort to violence, but psychopath are "versatile" in doing stuff that other people CHOOSE not to do, such as killing cops.

i.e; Police officer won't draw guns at first encounter... this is an act of respect to the perpetrator. It is also unnecessary to scare a criminal with guns before apprehending him, unless you're on a SWAT team. So, this police rules make police vulnerable to lawless/rule-less of a psychopath.

robbers wrote:

"Dahmer and Nilsen" are not representative of all psychopaths anymore than OJ is representative of all Black men. Are all Black men killers? Are all colored folk killers?

1. Of course... generalizing people is wrong. But (imo) it is not wrong to generalize a culture, or to generalize a behavioural pattern like ASPD.

I also said this before; psychopath can be a hero (if only if he adopted the correct ideology).

"Macdonald triad" a link from ASPD's wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macdonald_triad
(ASPD could be caused by experiencing intense humiliation during the first five years of a childhood's life)

robbers wrote:

Psychopaths don't hold a grudge the way sheep do; sheep just assume they would because that's how sheep are, they never forget a slight or an insult.

2. I can forget if I wanted to. The song "Forgiven but not forgotten" is a hasty generalization of all non-psychopath. Perhaps, alot of people can forget other people's slight or insult, provided that they have high-EQ. I may not have high-EQ, but at some part... I'm good at forgetting/dismissing slight and insult.

Maybe you're talking about women? women are emotional you know... maybe I can understand what you're experiencing. Women excommunicate you because of your small anti-socialness? (I don't know... just guessing)

robbers wrote:

Why would it lead to a violent outburst? Or are you just making that up?

3. Sorry, I was wording it out wrong.

I meant that; psychopath may have a hard feelings to peoples in general, due to others' 'indifferent' toward their un-fullfilment (just like what happen to some non-psychopath). Those un-fullfilment originate from their social isolation where psychopath MAY be left-out from the community where a good business opportunity could came up once in a while from an unexpected acquaintance. Hence, because of the saddening or in-pain caused by all those un-fullfillment, some unlucky psychopath may think he is undeserving of such fate, such that he start to took off on the broken windy path, such as robbing a bank? robbing bank is not necessarily violent, right?

Why not rob a bank? a poor non-psychopath may not rob a bank and stayed poor, but a psychopath (who don't fear any punishment), has no reason to not rob a bank, right?

"people don't give a job to autistic": http://autistscorner.blogspot.com/2008/05/employment-issues-in-autism-finding-and.html (this is a blog of an autistic individuals. See how fluent she talk! wow! but she is autistic.)

* Note for non-psychopath: consider how normal people can be considered 'idiot' for not being objective enough.

robber wrote:

There is nothing to be afraid of. Fearlessness is a virtue. The cowering sheep are afraid, and they want everyone to be afraid. When there is no more fear, it is easy to wait.

4. Having no fear is lacking.

One ought to be able to choose whenever he wanted to be fearless or not. In normal situation, non-psychopath is controlled by fear, whilst psychopath is lacking fear. Lacking fear and controlled by fear are both not freedom, freedom is achieved by the ability to shift between any of this 2 state as one's wishes.

And.. normal people has such ability if he wanted to (he is free), he can train himself to became an image of a psychopath; called Alexithymia, if he wishes so (unless it was involuntary, which was caused by a neurological disorder (Source; Dr. House)), but psychopath cannot experience fear if he chooses so, (if without taking a curing drug).

So...
take the red-pill, and show us how strong you are in resisting fear.

Alexi-thymia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia
Note: the picture in the banner about taking a red-pill is not my doing, I don't know anything!

robbers wrote:

The vain superficial falsity of sheep is a tedium. Who was it that is supposed to be superficially charming...? Or do the sheep really believe that is such a lovely sweater?

5. It believe the lovely sweater is lovely. I didn't know If was wrong.

robbers wrote:

But you just said a moment ago that the psychopath has no fear and no anticipation... so which is it? Has no anticipation, or is motivated by anticipation? (To live or to die are equal. Can someone be happy as a cripple? In a wheelchair? Yes. So what difference does it make about safety?)

6. What about fear of not being happy in a wheelchair? (fear of grim future?). It is a risk I don't dare taking.

robbers wrote:

But you just said a moment ago that the psychopath is charming... so which is it? Is not nice, or is charming?

7. They're charming because they don't care if what they're doing is just a lie, the charming-ness is just a mean to an end. How about that?

robbers wrote:

xponen wrote: I think seeking cure to psychopathy is good idea.. I think seeking a cure to normalcy is a good idea.

8. I dare not. The risk is too great! The "I" may be lost permanently and be said in a past tense.

robbers wrote:

Love is a form of fear. (Which does the mite prefer? To run to her love, or to run from her fear?)

9. Love is actually synonymous with hate, "Which does the mite prefer?" is not intended to synonimize love with fear, my stand remain unchanged since this post; http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/science-f5/is-there-t384.htm#5694

How can you understand fear if you're a psychopath? (however... I really really do hope that you're not psychopath, perhaps you're just a sympathizer to psychopath?)

robbers wrote:

Psychopathic fearlessness is learned. It's called "reality testing". The psychopath at some point tries something that is supposed to be dangerous or impossible; but the thing is actually quite safe, and also very easy. Taking this clue, the psychopath tries other 'dangerous and impossible' things. The sheep are amazed, the psychopath however merely discovered that... the door wasn't even locked!

"Reality testing"? I agree.

I saw this concept in NatGeo. The concept is this; as one is faced with a fearful situation, such as the height of a cliff (e.g. you're trying to do a parachute jump off a cliff as part of an extreme sport), you felt hesitant. You are hesitant because your fear of height is conflicting with your anticipation of fun (you keep saying "fun!! yay!" inside your head), but as you jump and learned that it is safe... your brain started to record its 'safeness' in its database, and afterward you won't feel scared anymore. It is akin to a 'training' to relinguish fear if I'm not mistaken.

i.e. Navy Marine trainee were also forced to experience a respiratory-failure during a supervised underwater training, this train them to experience less panic, enabling them to fix their own respirator while underwater or to perform combat underwater while respirator are off.

robbers wrote:

Schizophrenia is also a virtue in case you missed that too. Your science stuff is too funny. These things are a choice...

10. I think you've mistaken thrill seeking and emotional-numbness as psychopath. Psychopathy is not a choice.

robbers wrote:

How to Become a Schizophrenic (for a link, refer to the original post)

Schizophrenic is real too! We know it is real by looking at MRI scan, by identifying specific trace chemical within schizophrenic blood, and by identifying genetic marker for schizophernia. Schizophrenia is inheritable, hence strenghtent the idea that schizophrenia is not a choice but a curse.

Quote:

Love is a reckless passion.

11. Of course...

I love to love, but it is soooo scary. It is scary because it led us into doing things that we don't want to do when we are otherwise cool. We all should try to control it, for the sake of freewill!

epilogue: transpersonal games only for those with a solid psychology under their belts.
which must read: social responsibility intact, not clamoring for exemption from it, or, worse: calling for laws BECAUSE one transfers on innocent ones previous errors one would not admit. (imho, for pc!)

Thanks to the pirate link that you posted for "Inglorious Basterd" a while ago, I manage to watch that movie for free. Thanks.
_

I think life is meaningless. You do 'this', do 'that', loose everything.. then you found a girlfriend and live happily ever after, like fairy tales. I don't love fairy tale, but that movie is soo "fairy tale". I think Harold Crick's life is the most logical life ever existed, you don't need to climb mount Everest or going to space, you just.. get some entertainment, do what you can do at the present, do what's right, then live happily ever after. Yay!
_

Those "psychopath" thingy is such a trouble. If I want a trouble, I just enter a nightmare... there I got eaten by tentacle that burst out of the ground, or get shot, or running... running... finding something that I cannot get... *sigh*, it is all trouble.

Why do you want to be a psychopath?
I really really like to understand the excitement in that. Honest!

the ghosts (thoughts) tossed about here among insiders and their convict(ion)s keep displaying themselves as accomplices to irresponsive and irresponsible situations.
a hobby for bored and saturated folk playing to keep the status quo.
or so it does seem.

I'm very glad to hear that paths suffer, altho I personally doubt it, & doubt it would match what they inflict on others. Main thing is, how do we get rid of these miserable bastards who cause so much misery? BP

lavender orchid,

paths are crims who never quite understand morality or laws. They always feel persecuted & outraged when caught.

More/less seriously, we have some patriotic paths arguing so -

"I love my country.
When other countries break my country's laws, we send planes to bomb the hell outta them. That makes me proud.
True patriots like me just want to live w/out being bothered by the law.
We want to live in the woods with our gun collections, selling drugs.
But the law comes with SWAT teams & drops bombs on us.
What's wrong with this country?"

It all looks a mite inconsistent to me. Bamberpanda

Bamberpanda, i know what you mean.
all tech progress would come from star wars and their sci-fi beating old-fashioned r+p

boomer mommy supposedly happy, but kids resorting to kool aid.