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 | Subject: Animal nudity issue Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:04 am | |
| Some argue, animals should not wear clothes. Others that it should be a choice. I'll summarize my position on this issue below, and I'd like to know yours.
Animal nudity is sometimes classed together with child nudity. A child is naïve of things sexual, and so is not required to wear clothes like everyone else. Babies may appear in public both topless and fully nude without offending public mores; bath-time photos, like wild-life photography, is never offensive. However, some fear the effects of exposing the powerful physicality of animals such as Horses: the rippling muscles, silky flowing manes, and taut haunches: they argue these sorts of animals ought to be clothed, even Colts, while less sexy animals, like Tree Sloths, may go unclothed.
Others see a religious dimension: it is the hair, a covering, itself which is offensive to God and so the covering must be covered: both pubic hair and also the hair on the head by a scarf or kippah. For these religious people, the traditional view that nudity should be covered is reversed: they argue that fully nude animals such as Sphynx Cats or Dolphins are okay with God, but that it is the furry animals that must cover themselves. This argument actually has some backing from science because human beings are the animal with the longest hair of any animal, and so it is humans who have, anthropologically speaking, worn the shame (and clothes) of this religious injunction to be transparent and unconcealing in relationship with God. But this is absurd because Clams and Oysters also cover themselves, so why should hair be different from a shell? Some Mermaids wear shells over their breasts and this would obviously have the same effect as a cotton or a fur-bra.
Since most agree that primitive savages may go nude, they extend this argument to animals as well: wild animals may go nude, but domesticated animals should be properly dressed.
You commonly hear it said, "like a fish in water": since humans wash and bathe in the nude, and even swim nude, it's argued that animals who live in the water such as fish or Manatees* ought also to go nude, while land animals such as Camels ought to have on at least some attire.
Others actually take issue not so much with the nudity, or it's representation, but with the scale, for instance a male horse who is naked from mid-section down might not be offensive as a ceramic miniature, or in the context of a glue factory, or a Sunday ride, but that same horse's nudity magnified to enormous proportions in the form of a National memorial would be offensive to them.
The most radical perspective is of course that of the nudists. They argue that both humans and animals should never wear clothes, that it is actually wrong when a human or a dog wears a coat or boots -- even on a cold day. This perspective is difficult to understand.
In conclusion, animal nudity is a complex issue that reaches through the everyday into the high spheres of science and religion, it stretches from the comic through to the awful. Given the amount of apathy in the World today, everyone should take a strong position.
* Since the Arc of the Covenant is believed to have been covered by the hide of a Sea Cow, this argument is often given by religious people. |
|  | | Echo

 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:48 am | |
| I've never thought animals should be ashamed of their naked bodies. It's never once occurred to me lol. They're just animals; simple, innocent creatures who run on instinct. What do they have to hide? They hump all kinds of things. They have sex in public. They eat out of the trash, their own young, and their own feces. They poop wherever they darnwell please. They're loud. They stink. They fight, kill, and steal out in the open. Animals are anarchists, and we're the tyrants always trying to take that away.
Most of them have fur coverings anyway...what's the point? Fashion? 0_o
Err, no thanks, Paris Hilton. I like my pooches muddy and uncivilized.
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|  | | resection

 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:25 am | |
| | Echo wrote: | Most of them have fur coverings anyway...what's the point? Fashion? 0_o
Err, no thanks, Paris Hilton. I like my pooches muddy and uncivilized. |
Yes, it's fashion; fashion in slow motion over millions of years 'cause you can't just buy it but have to evolve it. God likes stripes it seems.
| Echo wrote: | | I've never thought animals should be ashamed of their naked bodies. |
It should be obvious to all that the horse's body in equestrian plays a similarly physical and sensuous role as the body of the ballet dancer for aristocracy: an overt fleshy physicalness that is ordinarily repressed; it can somehow appear unabashedly in an otherwise tempered mind-space. It is not the animals that should to be ashamed -- but us! How is that a huge Horse can stand glistening, posturing, and nude amongst civilized dapper ladies and gentlemen and no one notices or finds this out of place!? |
|  | | Echo

 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:25 pm | |
| Well I uh guess I just uh have an appreciation for all forms... I've never been particularly awed by horses like most girls have. I rode them for a while. I just thought of them as big and stinky. Try cleaning out their hooves and see how attractive they are...ugggh! Lol. I think my favorite animal by far is the cat, and the Lynx cat to be exact....I could just melt every time I see them. Leonardo Da Vinci once said the cat has the most perfect, and elegant body he could ever imagine. The tips of their ears are just....agghh!! ^___^ And some are so fluffy and made for the snow, like huskies...(also a gorgeous animal)   Look at how cute this shot is....I could just diiiie!  |
|  | | mayflow

Comments: glad for the correspondence
getting clear now
and for your friendship
 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:29 pm | |
| I voted for decriminalizing. But then again, I've never been a fan of prohibitions anyways. |
|  | | resection

 | |  | | Echo

 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:38 am | |
| I would think of fur more like an animals hair style as it can come in all different colors, lengths, and designs. Even though it does cover all or a good portion of the body, I wouldn't consider it a full cover.
Answering this question, for me, is simple. If I had my way, nobody would have to wear clothes! No humans, and definitely no animals. I think it's wrong to force people to cover themselves.
Only if we really need clothes should we have to wear them, like in the winter. Otherwise, if it's really hot out, why should I have to? Why should I have to lay on the beach (well most beaches) in a bra and underwear called a 'bathing suit'? It's stupid.
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|  | | imp-pulse

 | |  | | Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:49 pm | |
| In case someone missed it before it was deleted, there are some post's that are meaningful and others that are not. Posts run from one extreme to the other. This thread is an example of one extreme. |
|  | | Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:56 pm | |
| | Echo wrote: | Answering this question, for me, is simple. If I had my way, nobody would have to wear clothes! No humans, and definitely no animals. I think it's wrong to force people to cover themselves.
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I would agree with you on this, I would guess that somewhere in history someone with an un-attractive body decided that if they were not comfortable with no clothing no-one else should go without either, just a bit of sour-grapes, my guess, and then they blamed it on God. |
|  | | Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:59 pm | |
| Another idea is that some very wealthy, wanted a way to show off that wealth via. jewelry and other ornaments and clothing was a good place to hang it on, pinning it to the skin might be uncomfortable. |
|  | | resection

 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:24 pm | |
| | thedoc wrote: | | Another idea is that some very wealthy, wanted a way to show off that wealth via. jewelry and other ornaments and clothing was a good place to hang it on, pinning it to the skin might be uncomfortable. |
Humans wear clothing because they feel dysphoria when they don't.
Some argue, we do not hold animals to the standard of human nudity -- then why can I not find one single picture of a dolphin's penis on Google Images?
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|  | | Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:32 am | |
| | resection wrote: | Humans wear clothing because they feel dysphoria when they don't.
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Just shows that Humans can be taught, and will believe, all sorts of irrational things. Not all ahumans felt that way, at least till the Christian missionaries really messed things up. |
|  | | Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:35 am | |
| | resection wrote: | Some argue, we do not hold animals to the standard of human nudity -- then why can I not find one single picture of a dolphin's penis on Google Images?
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Perhaps they were embarrassed when the photographer showed up? Or just not in the mood? |
|  | | Guest Guest
 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:40 am | |
| | resection wrote: | Some Mermaids wear shells over their breasts and this would obviously have the same effect as a cotton or a fur-bra.
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Just curious, you do realize that Mermaids do not exist? |
|  | | resection

 | Subject: Re: Animal nudity issue Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:13 am | |
| | thedoc wrote: | | resection wrote: | Humans wear clothing because they feel dysphoria when they don't.
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Just shows that Humans can be taught, and will believe, all sorts of irrational things. Not all ahumans felt that way, at least till the Christian missionaries really messed things up. |
Even in warm places, adult primitives do not go nude. Though small children do. And adult females do not cover the breasts. Missionaries were coming primarily from pant wearing cultures: Northerners wore clothes, specifically pants, and covered the breasts from the pre-historic time they moved into those geographical areas. The Mediterraneans or Indians wear saris, longyis, and togas. More southerly peoples wore loincloths, gourds, etc. Nudity dysphoria, genetically, concerns only the genitals and anal region of adults. Habit and culture has added the breasts, and much else of the body, so for instance some Muslim women wear a burka that covers the whole body and face -- this is not a nudity issue. But there is no guarantee that nudity dysphoria must cause clothedness either, nudists for instance have gotten around this, many people are able to have sex entirely nude without the need for holed sheets, and few bathe in a bathing suit to hide those parts from themselves.
| Quote: | | Just curious, you do realize that Mermaids do not exist? |
This is a philosophical investigation, philosophy is about ideas, it doesn't matter if something "exists", as you call it, or not. |
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