That quote from WIttgenstein is out of context. That is actually Wittgenstein quoting Augustine, and then wittgenstein criticizes his view that language is learned by learning names of objects.

I think either nouns and verbs came together or verbs came first.

You can have a full sentence with only a verb, for example: "Look!"

But you can't have a full sentence with only a noun. the word "ball" by itself can not be part of a language

Who is it? Mark!

thats two sentences, one with just a noun.


Also, the sentence "Duck!" could be interperated two ways, one as a noun one as a verb.

I don't see how language-games are masculinist. How are they "rehearsals" for huntin? He was just comparing language to a game, and sentences to moves made in those games.

Also, yes you can have a sentence with only "Mark" but as vana pointed out mark means: It is Mark.

This is also the case in wittgensteins primitive language games in which "Slab" really means: fetch me a slab.

I voted for verb. I like rhinos argument. Mostly because it is so simple. Simplicity is beautiful.

i voted for verb, it our lives we use verbs far more than nouns, nouns only name things but verbs portray everything else from feelings to action.

Noun came first in affirmative but verb came first in questions !

interesting....i think i should study grammer again coz i forgot it.....

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hummmm, i would vote, if i knew which came first, i or you asking me such a question.

overtaking the undertaker: clearly fast enough for a dissolution in synchronicity.

btw. i love this thread!

noun phrases and verb phases would have to originate together because you don't have a sentence without both. and sentences are needed to describe facts, make claims, convey information, convince people to go along with some action, and so on.

The first word a baby uses is a word for mother. Just by using this noun the baby gets the desired attention. Hence we all used nouns before verbs so the noun came first.

Russell

The first word a baby uses is intended to convey the desire for a change of state.

A change of state is a reconfiguration of the elements of possibility, a fulfilling of lack.

This characterizes all life. Life is characterized by change, growth, lack-and-fulfillment.

The verb is the basis of all symbolic manipulation of reality.

The verb is essential to the form, to the statement of facts.

Hello Russell, welcome to the forum. Nice post.

rhinogrey wrote:

The first word a baby uses is intended to convey the desire for a change of state.

What about crying? Why should baby call mom if she can cry?

In answer to why a baby should call mom if she can cry. For survival a baby needs to increase is repertoire and intially does this by impressing the mother firstly by facial expressions, then by using words. Conceptually the easiest words to use and understand are nouns which act as labels.

Russell

.... and have a meaning to the "other".

excluded from random mutuality: once experienced, always part of our lives.

ya all sure know better.

and yes: it WAS. looking back to the one-dimensional experience it became.